Category: Home Defense

Fanny Pack Mother Lode

  • updated: 3/7/24 with 2 new bag reviews

Since I use this site to spread info and not get clicks or traffic, I’m going to brain dump everything I know about fanny pack carry. I’m going to cover my history with fanny packs, their use case, their downsides, pistol requirements and considerations, draw stroke, and a review of every fanny pack I’ve owned. I’ve been carrying in fanny packs intermittently since 2008 and almost exclusively since 2020. Here’s how I got into fanny pack carry. 

I first started considering using a fanny pack in 2008. I watched Jay Gibson of Tactical Response show up to the range with his Maxpedition Octa full of Glock 19 with big dots and teach part of Fighting Pistol with it. I was very early in my shooting career, but I noted how easy and unobtrusive the fanny pack seemed to be for toting irrespective of dress. Paul Gomez (Rest In Peace), also occasionally used fanny packs and gave me some good pointers on choosing one. He taught me to buy the most tourist/normie fanny pack color and design I could, and if possible apply some national park patches to it to look like a hiker rather than a cop. He actually made a video about some of his ideas. These two guys, who I highly respected, used them, so why shouldn’t I be able to?



For a long time, fanny packs either meant cop or dork. I was resistant to using them for anything but dog walks, hiking, or camping, but fanny packs as an accessory have come back into fashion and wearing one isn’t out of place in 2024. Starting in 2020, I decided that since I was doing a lot of gardening, mostly wearing sweatpants, and that I didn’t have the patience for a belt, I committed to fanny pack life. Now that I’m back to coaching Jiu Jitsu, I rarely have the need for a traditional kydex holster and belt. If I do need a real holster, I use my PHLSTER Enigma to still allow beltless concealed carry.

I say all that to say, I have been accumulating opinions on fanny packs for quite a while, and have lived with them daily since early 2020. I’ll share my thoughts with you here.

Even Rogan uses them.


Addressing the Off-Body Carry Elephant


Technically a fanny pack is considered “OFF BODY” carry, since the bag is visible and can be easily removed. For several important reasons, off-body carry is less than ideal. 

  • The first big issue is that off-body bags themselves are the target of a theft because of their usual contents (think purse, shoulder sling bag, gym bag, backpack, etc). 
  • The second issue, related to the first, is that people constantly remove their off-body carry bag depending on their environment. Purses go in shopping carts, backpacks get put in a spare chair or under the desk, sling bags get draped over a restaurant chair, etc. This opens them up for theft as well as unauthorized access (children being my biggest concern). 
  • Lastly, off-body guns are slower to access, often requiring two hands. There is also the likelihood that the bag has changed orientation relative to your body, requiring your visual attention to index the bag before you can even start accessing the gun. 

That said, there is certainly a time and place for off-body carry if you understand the possible drawbacks and avoid user error.

The good news is that a fanny pack doesn’t share the same drawbacks as other forms of off-body carry. The pack stays on your body, doesn’t shift as you move, and can be accessed one handed in a variety of positions. I’d argue that fanny packs are in the middle ground of Off-Body and Concealed Carry. It allows the comfort and versatility of off-body carry with the ability to readily access your gun in a very congruent manner to an appendix carry setup. It also allows a convenient way to carry support gear and keep your pockets from bulging. Some would argue that they are the worst of both worlds but that’s just a matter of perspective, fashion sense, and needs.

When is a fanny pack a convenient way to carry?

I will always default to the most comfortable and convenient way to carry, when balanced against the dress requirements, level of visual scrutiny expected, perceived threat level, and gun requirement I have for a given situation. Here’s a quick list of times that a fanny pack is an ideal way to carry:

  • Yard Chores
  • Dog walks/ Hiking
  • Shopping Trips
  • Around the house (They allow me to carry more gun at home VS an Underwear Gun)
  • Globo-Gym workout (If I squat, I’ll place the bag in front of me within arms reach, otherwise it stays on)
  • Road Trips
  • Whenever I’m beltless (Gi pants, gym shorts, sweats)
  • Whenever I need to be able to comfortably bend at the waist
American Go-THICC

What don’t they do?

Fanny packs are slower to draw from than concealed IWB carry, which is slower than open carry, which is slower than just walking around with a pistol in your hand. That said, I don’t sweat a 1-2 second penalty on my draw time. If the shooting problem is directed toward me at contact distance, drawing on an aimed gun is a losing battle and is likely a grappling problem first. If the problem allows any distance stand-off, verbal or visual deception, or physical movement, the time penalty becomes less important. Either way, I just don’t sweat the time penalty very much. I’d like to be the first person to take a fanny pack through Shivwork’s ECQC.

Fanny packs draw more visual attention and could raise questions. For this problem, I always choose the least tactical color available and have even sewn outdoor equipment patches or national park patches to make it look less scary. I also have a canned response if someone asks what I keep in there. I tell them it’s my insulin and blood sugar testing supplies (I’m not diabetic, but I’m stealing valor). I also prefer getting the smallest footprint pack I can find that is appropriately sized for the gun I expect to carry. 

What does a CCW fanny pack need to do?

Similar to how a ‘safe’ IWB holster has several requirements:

  • Allow a full firing grip on the gun while holstered
  • Keep its shape to allow one handed holstering
  • Adequately protect the trigger while holstered
  • Stay in place on the belt

 So too does a useful fanny pack. Here are my requirements:

  • Has a dedicated gun slot which keeps errant chapstick and keys from touching triggers
  • Keeps the gun oriented and indexed reliably
  • Allows one handed opening of bag and draw of the gun
  • The bag sufficiently protects the trigger or has a velcro field to attach a nylon loop holster or attachment points to dummy cord a kydex trigger guard holster

What are the pistol requirements for a fanny pack?

Unlike other holsters which you buy to fit the exact gun you carry, fanny packs require more careful pistol selection. I tend to not bother with an internal nylon loop holster or kydex trigger guard, so I will only carry Double Action pistols, Revolvers, or safety-equipped single action guns. Currently, I prefer to carry my Sig P365XL with safety, but I’ve carried a number of guns in fanny packs over the years to include K and J-frame revolvers, Glock 19, Smith Shield, Beretta PX4c, and some others. If you decide to carry a glock or plastic gun without a manual safety, I strongly recommend a kydex trigger guard which you will dummy cord to the body of the fanny pack. Keep the dummy cord as short as possible, or you will have an extra long vertical draw before the kydex rips free. Large heavy guns like Beretta 92s *can* be carried in fanny packs, but the weight and footprint of the fanny pack starts to become a tell.

Tips and Tricks

Here are a few tips to help you set up your fanny pack to be useful in the widest set of circumstances:

  • If you have a pack that uses zipper pulls, I highly recommend changing the main pistol zipper pull to something that is both thicker and longer than the other pull tabs on the other zippers. This allows no-look indexing of the zipper pull with your hands while your eyes are on more important matters. I have purchased longer cloth pull tabs and have braided paracord into box weave pulls. 
  • Close your pistol zippers at the top right corner (for right handed shooters) and your other pockets at the left side. This prevents accidental opening of the pistol pocket when you’re going for your wallet or chapstick. Closing at the top right also allows a single movement to the left for access which lowers the chances of hanging up at the 90 degree turn in the zipper path. 
  • Another way to set up a zipper bag is to run a long stiff cloth pull from inside the bag and let it peek through the slight opening in the two closed zippers. This gives you a single point to grab and rip away from your body, which simultaneously pulls both zippers in the process. I also generally prefer the pistol to lay at a 45-degree angle in the pouch, which allows a more natural wrist angle on the draw, but this is bag dependent. 
  • Lastly, if you find a fanny pack design you like, but at least one spare. These are niche carry items, and everyone tries to put their spin on them. So it’s hard to find another one that has the features you value the most. I only have two of the KG Products discontinued model and I wish I had 4 of them.
You have died of dust flap.

How to draw from a fanny pack

I wrote this in 2016, and it’s still perfectly adequate to explain the draw: https://www.growingupguns.com/2016/08/29/technique-draw-from-a-fanny-pack/

The most important detail is that the draw stroke is the same as when using a IWB holster once you get a full firing grip on the gun in the bag. So your fanny pack should allow acquiring the full firing grip in the fewest possible steps. Be aware of your muzzle on the draw, as it is possible to flag your off hand as you clear the bag. I tend to retract my elbow and let my pistol track towards a retention shooting position (thumb-pectoral index), which keeps the muzzle pointed down and away from my off hand while I draw.

Bags I’ve used

Top: Bianchi, Maxpedition Middle: Tommy’s Gun, KG Products Bottom: Eberlestock, HPG

Here’s a list of the fanny packs I’ve used, and a simple rating and explanation of features:

The Shield Arms Junk Sack – 5 / 5 https://www.shieldarms.com/shop/category/soft-goods-bags-junk-sack-275

This is the speed rig of fanny packs. It uses rare earth magnets (how do they work?) and side velcro for closure. There is a fabric handle that allows easy indexing without having to look down, and a sharp yank forward opens the gun compartment. Exactly like the discontinued KG Products pack that I loved so much. This is the modern solution to a no-look one-handed fanny pack draw. The gun compartment holds my P365 and a small TQ in a pouch at the bottom. Perfect solution for me. The storage pouch is just a little smaller than I’d prefer, but uses a stretchy fabric that accommodates the essentials. This one gets my highest recommendation. Get one and try it.

VERTX SOCP tactical fanny pack. 4.5 / 5 https://vertx.com/socp-tactical-fanny-pack

It’s big. It reminds me of the 90’s cop fanny packs that people recognize as gun bags. BUT, if you need extra space, for either a larger gun or more gear, it seems like a good option. The zipper gun closure is the industry standard approach, and has all the drawbacks I outlined in my post. There is a dedicated external phone pouch that doubles as a viewing sleeve so you can watch Rich Piana’s 8 hour arm workout videos while you eat cheetos. There are good organization slots in the cargo pocket, with plenty of room for daily needs as well as a some medical gear. It can accommodate a g19 with optic and muzzle brake, as opposed to most of the others I’ve reviewed in which my P365xl with dot and 15 round mag is a snug fit. It also has some webbing on the body facing side which would be perfect for attaching a punch dagger or similar fixed blade knife. It’s really good, it’s just not perfect for my needs at the moment.

Eberlestock BANDO bag 4 / 5 https://eberlestock.com/products/bando-bag

This one is brand new to me as of early January 2024. It is laid out very similar to the Hill People Gear Snubby belt bag that I’ve used for several years. There are some design choices that I like more than the HPG bag. For one, there is no dust flap over the gun pocket. This prevents the possibility of the dust flap jamming up the zipper when you aggressively yank the zipper pull, which has happened to me. The volume of the bag feels slightly smaller, but the footprint and slightly domed shape looks more like hiking gear than the cubical shape of the HPG. I also like the elastic TQ keeper band in the upper flap of the utility compartment and zippered mesh divider for keeping things more organized. The elastic and velcro muzzle loop works very well at keeping the pistol oriented properly, but has enough give to allow a natural draw path without hanging up the pistol on the way out.

I don’t like the fact that there is only one pull on the utility portion of the bag, and that it only opens from the right side. This creates a small jungle of pull loops in the same area, which only creates confusion when you draw. This is another reason to buy or make a distinctly sized and shaped zipper pull for your main gun zipper. I probably will also try to make a pull tab that attaches inside the gun slot so I can pull a single tab and get both zippers to open at once, as mentioned in the tips and tricks section. I’ll know more in a few months of use. I’d also like to see a slightly larger tooth size on the gun compartment zipper. I’ll mention that more in my “dream fanny pack” section below.

LAPG FRUNK 2 / 5 https://snp.link/8a7a5ce6

This was a run of cheapo fanny packs that LA Police gear released a couple of years ago. They were thinner nylon and only had one main pocket with a velcro backing to accommodate a nylon loop holster. The front accessory pocket couldn’t hold a phone and wallet. For this reason, it doesn’t have much utility for keeping your pockets clear. But they were less than $25, so they were a cheap intro into fanny packs. This one would make a good medical fanny pack for range work, or a dedicated dog walking bag. I gave mine to my sister.

Maxpedition OCTA Versipak 2 / 5 https://amzn.to/48XcyPM

My first fanny pack for carry. It’s made of heavy 1000D cordura. The downside is that there is only one main pocket, and a front zip pocket. So while you can carry a pistol in it, there isn’t much room for anything else. This one would make a good medical fanny pack for range work.

KG Products (discontinued) 4.5 / 5

My favorite fanny pack ever. It had a dedicated gun pocket that was sealed with velcro, and kept shut by a single snap button at the corner. This was the closest thing to a gross motor draw as I have found in a fanny pack. You would grab a bunch of material near the button closure, and rip forward. It was only set up for right-handed shooters, which suited me fine. The utility pocket and front zip pocket was enough for wallet, phone, light, and some medical equipment. 

The main downside of this bag was a lack of rigidity, molle, or velcro field in the body-contacting panel of the gun section. As a result, the bag tended to sag away from the body, making it appear larger than it needed to be. Velcro also has a lifespan and eventually starts to wear out, so the closure eventually becomes more prone to opening on its own.

Spiritus Systems Fanny SACK 2 / 5 https://snp.link/871743fb

While a sought after brand for chest rigs and such, this one wasn’t really designed for pistol carry. Just like the Maxpedition OCTA, it only had the main large pocket. Once again, this one would be perfect for a man purse or range medical bag.

Bianchi Top Secret Fanny Pack (discontinued) 1 / 5 

This is the style of fanny pack that people who were around in the 90’s would say screams “COP”!. The footprint is very large across the hips. The secret gun pocket is closed with velcro only. The upside is it had mirrored ambidextrous velcro closures. The downside is that the opening required a nearly horizontal draw to clear. Poorly designed bag in my opinion. The body contact panel was a comfortable and semi-rigid foam and could accommodate glock 17 sized pistols, but you can only fit a K-frame revolver inside of it. I don’t get it.

Galco Fastrax PAC 1 / 5

This one looks cool on paper, but it failed at one of my main requirements. Galco kindly sent me one of these in early 2020 for T&E. I wish I would have liked it more. The form factor of the bag was very small. So small in fact, that the gun must lay horizontal in the bag, and there is an integral pivoting holster that requires you to tug on a tab to get the gun to pivot 90 degrees upward to allow you to get a firing grip. So you have to unzip the bag (1st action), and then find another small pull tab to yank and pivot the internal holster (2nd action). As a result, not only do you have to dexterously find two small pieces of fabric to pull, you also must use two hands to keep the holster vertical long enough to make a full firing grip. Fully a non-starter if you understand how an up close fight can go. It is like a Rube Goldberg machine for pistols. That and the gun could sometimes hang up on the flaps of the zipper as it pivoted. I liked that they were trying something different, but this one was a flop for me.

Hill People Gear Belt Pack Snubby 4 / 5 https://hillpeoplegear.com/Products/CategoryID/1/ProductID/129

This one was a long time companion. It can hold a SIG p365 with red dot and smaller guns. The front utility pocket was enough to hold a phone, wallet, gum, flashlight. The front flat pocket could hold some medical gear. The shape was cubic, which looks slightly more tactical than other styles (a negative). It worked well and is a good size. They now make a slightly larger size that probably would be even better for comfortably holding other odds and ends.

There were several things I didn’t like about this bag. The biggest one was the zipper setup. They used a relatively fine-toothed zipper, which requires more force and is more prone to gumming up when exposed to lots of dirt. I’d love to see them make this with a larger toothed zipper pull for the gun pocket. The other notable negative is the dust protection flap over the zipper. If the wind is right and there’s a full moon, the zipper will eat the dust flap, locking the zipper in place preventing your draw. That’s bad juju. I never got around to cutting it away, but that’s probably a good idea if you try one. Overall a good pack. 

You have died of dust flap.
HPG zipper bottom, Tommy’s gun pack top. Tooth size matters.

Tommy’s Gun Pack (discontinued) 4 / 5

I have about 10 months of use on this discontinued bag. I really like how they did the gun access on this one. They used wide big toothed zippers, which clear dirt and unzip smoothly and easily. The right side FASTEX buckle acts as the pull tab that pulls the zippered gun compartment open. When you pinch the buckle, some clever nylon routing pulls at the zippers which the user stages at the top right corner of the pouch. Yanking forward peels the gun compartment open. One handed access is simple.

This pack is nearly too wide to look like a sports fanny pack. It teeters on the “COP!” end of the scale, similar to the Bianchi. The FASTEX buckles can also become brittle and break with wear. The way the nylon is routed in that buckle would make replacing it quite tricky. Overall a very good pack if you can find one on EBAY.

Wilderness DB Defender 3 / 5 https://www.thewilderness.com/waist-pack-holsters/db-defender-waist-pack/

EDIT 3/7/24: I was able to recently try one of these. My hands-on opinion is the same as my opinion formed from looking at the layout on their website. The gun pocket is a bit too thick (front-to back), and the storage pocket is a bit too small. It’s very well made, as is all of The Wilderness’ gear. It’s “OK”, but it’s not my first recommendation.

I was just made aware of these and haven’t handled one yet. I know DB puts a lot of thought into his gear, so I’m sure this one works well. It has some useful holster attachment options and what looks like plenty of space for different width guns. I like that there isn’t a dust flap over the zipper to get snagged on. I like the flat rear pocket and front utility pocket.

I believe there are some design features that could be reorganized to be even better. The gun pocket zipper is shaped in an arch, where I’d prefer a straight pull zipper to cut down on the possibility of binding the zipper on the draw as you rip the zipper open as the cloth softens over time. I’d like to see a thinner gun section, which might better stabilize and squeeze the pistol and prevent it from flopping forward in the pocket (a problem I had with the KG Products pack). This likely wouldn’t be a concern if you use the holster keeper options it comes with. Some of that reclaimed real-estate could be donated to the front utility pocket along with that arch shaped zipper. This would allow easier access to day to day items. But again, I haven’t handled one and it might be perfect as is.

The Perfect Fanny Pack

If I knew how to sew, or if you do, here’s how I would lay out the perfect pistol fanny pack. Let’s do some business together. 

  • It would be very similar in shape to the KG products or Eberlestock bag. 
  • The body side panel would have laser cut velcro/molle and paracord loops at the bottom to allow a variety of holster accessories as well as afford padding and stiffness to the bag. 
  • The front facing side of the gun section should also be stiffened in some way. The gun section would be a rectangular prism, about as thick as a G19, but no wider. This would hug the pistol and prevent sagging and flopping away from the body, and keep the weight of the front pouch from causing it to sag away from the body.
  • It would have a velcro closure that ran where the top and right side zipper usually do and be secured at the top right corner by a snap or 3. This would make the gun section invisible, stay secure, and be operable with one hand via yanking it forward aggressively.
  • If it instead had zippers, it wouldn’t have a dust flap and it would be a beefy zipper width to open quickly and clear dirt. 
  • There would be an integral pull loop which would attach at the bottom-left front of the gun section and hang out of the bag by a couple of inches. It would be covered in velcro or have a snap located near the top-right to keep the zippers from separating in day to day movement. A single sharp forward pull would open the snaps and unzip the bag for access. 
  • Conversely, you could forgo the pull tab and just put a single snap exactly at the top-right (and top-left) which would keep the bag closed, but quickly rip open if you yank the bag forward.
  • It would have an adequate storage area for a phone, flashlight, keys, and wallet and perhaps a front flat pocket which went low enough in the front to tuck in a TQ where it would effectively sit below the main utility pouch in the front. 

The rest is just details.

Thanks for reading, now please never ask me about fanny packs again.

What Does Average Joe Need In A Trigger? 5 Years Later

In 2015, I wrote a blog post that addressed some thoughts I was having about what type of pistol best fit my life. I was processing exactly what I needed a pistol to do for me, in my life, for my situation. That post was my way of getting through the inertia of over ten years of Glock 19s and heavy indoctrination into having to find the perfect, easy to shoot fast, competition/carry trigger. Shortly after that post, I believed my own idea and started investing in and learning (and attempting to master) Double Action and Traditional Double Action pistols in various size envelopes. This post will highlight my mental map that led me to where I am today.

Current Underwear Gun and gym shorts options: smith 640, LCR, and LCP

Full Circle

I find myself going full circle on a lot of things in my life. I could write a post about this, but I’ll give a relevant example here. I started my firearms training under instructors that were trying to build a strong foundation of self-defense in a two day class. As a result of the scope of those classes, there isn’t much time to talk about, much less use, shot timers and discuss progressive improvement in shooting skills or competition. So I left those early classes with too much confidence and not knowing what I didn’t know regarding time pressure.

Then I fell into circles who were skilled competitors and instructors who taught me that time matters and being faster than the other guy wins fights. So I mocked the no-timer-guys and was on a mission to go fast(er). I got really wrapped up in the timer and achieving what I now view as “meaningless degrees of precision” in score and time. It is really easy to get wrapped up in the timer once you discover it.

Now, after thinking about this a lot for the last few years, and listening to people who have been thinking about this for entire careers, I am somewhere in the middle. Speed matters, to a point and at certain times. (Meaningful) Precision is my primary performance goal with enough speed to ride the edge of assessment of my shooting. This fact leaves a lot of room for DA guns in my life.

Training time is another factor. Dry fire is free. I can practice the most important shooting skills for free at home. I can learn a new trigger style at home for free. The Pareto principle applies. For me to squeak out a .02 second split time improvement below say .25 seconds would take an inordinate amount of time and money. It also might be counterproductive to self defense, as I mention below. As a multi-disciplinary practitioner, that time is better spent getting my 80/20 under the bar, on the mats, or meal prepping. You have to dive deep enough into each facet of this thing, but not too deep or you’ll neglect something else. But that might be another post.

The Discontinued P250 (sadly), and a Beretta 92a1 with some Wilson goodies.

What does a defensive gun need to do?

Since we have to live with and around our guns a whole lot more than we have to shoot them, some weight should be given to ‘margin of safety’ in our pistol’s function. Those little mechanical assists that cover for us when we have a lapse in concentration or are otherwise overwhelmed my the situation unfolding before us. It’s worth considering that the most dangerous thing we do with our guns, statistically speaking, is administrative handling. Specifically holstering. Keep in mind that 98-100% (by time) of our interactions with a gun will be administrative.

In order of importance, a self defense gun should facilitate:
1- Not shooting ourselves
2- Not shooting people we don’t want to shoot
3-Shooting what we want to shoot

Then I took to heart Darryl Bolke’s requirements of a handgun that only ask for, “Sights I can see, a trigger I can manage, in a reliable package.” This isn’t a big ask and leaves a lot of options available, including DA guns and revolvers.

Timers and Scoring still play a role. You have to know where you are.

…But your split times are slower!

Then I learned about assessment speed (and reaction times via Bill Rogers) and how it’s possible to “out-drive your headlights” and shoot faster than you can process the impact of your shots on your target. I learned that LAPD SWAT trains to .5 second splits to allow good hits and proper assessment. This made me less anxious about moving away from striker guns and towards double action guns.

Since I can’t think and react faster than about .25 seconds (and nor can you), why should I seek a defensive gun that I can shoot faster just for faster’s sake. It didn’t make sense for me. Detractors say, “If you can shoot .17 splits, then shooting .3 second splits becomes easier”. This of course is true. Moving the ultimate ceiling of your speed higher will make all slower cadences easier. To paraphrase Darryl Bolke again, once you can shoot .25 splits at self-defense ranges on a grapefruit sized target reliably, you have all the speed you “need”. I’m content to trust his experience and not worry about finding a gun that allows me .19 second splits and trade away a ‘safer’ trigger.

The Barami Hipgrip (which I textured). While designed for behind the hip, this does pretty well Appendix. Note that there’s enough grip sticking up to get a firing grip. Pairs well with a Tyler T-Grip.

…But you’re NoT AS aCcUrAtE

Consider The Most Important Shot in defensive shooting. This, of course, is the draw to first shot. After this, things get much more hectic. So I strove to build and hone my draw and first shot on my DA guns. I learned to Fear Not The Double Action Shot, as Ernest Langdon explained. Just knowing that people can be highly competitive and winning with DA/SA guns showed me that if I would make the transition I could become competent with some practice. So that’s not a concern.

HK P30sk V1 LEM – 1lb 9.0oz empty mag

Tactical Implications and fudge factor

At about the same time, I was thinking about Zen and the Art of Not Shooting. Prior to this time, I was almost always practicing my draw to a shot. Then I realized that most defensive gun uses are non-shooting events. So it might be worth having another neural pathway set that ends in a strong low ready and an indexed finger, ready to issue commands. This lesson was driven home by my training with Claude Werner, as well as Shivworks AMIS course. A double action gun allows us a margin of safety here if our finger gets confused during the presentation.

Closing

This post is already long enough so I’ll wrap here. If anyone is interested, I’ll do another post to list of the guns I’ve tried and experimented with over the last few years. I have pretty much settled on my favorites for different applications, and I can also outline why I sold the ones I did. It’s been a revolving door, but I’m happy where I am.

I think the TL;DR of this whole post is: It’s not just about the shooting, and those things are more important anyway.

AAR: Pepper Spray for Non-Cops, Instructor Cert. by Agile Training

I recently attended a new offering from Chuck Haggard of Agile Training and Consulting. It’s his new 1 Day OC (pepper spray) instructor course for non-LEOs. I have been carrying pepper spray daily for about 6 years now, and wanted to be credentialed to pass on what I’ve learned. I jumped at the chance and don’t regret my decision to attend.

Safety

A note on force on force safety. The owners of The Complete Combatant, the hosts of the class, have a very robust and meticulous safety protocol to assure no live weapons make it onto the training area. It includes a group chat, and a group disarming, followed by securing live unloaded weapons in a box to be stored in another location, and a final pat down from the instructors and your neighbors in line. It’s these overlapping safety features that help keep force on force training safe. There’s a reason the book Training At The Speed of Life exists. There’s a lot of training accidents, and we have to be diligent about securing our training area.

History Lessons

Chuck is a career lawman and has unique experiences with testing and real-world use of less lethal technologies. As a result, and for context, the class opens with less lethal options, and an overview of less lethal chemicals that have been used over the years. Chuck’s reasoning for favoring OC over all the other available options is well reasoned and convincing. He frames the course in a civilian context, and his conclusions based of the civilian ‘mission’ make a lot of sense, and OC is very effective at the tasks it’s needed for.

He does an overview of the chemicals involved, the immediate effects of OC on the body, the lasting effects, the solvents used to carry the OC, as well as the propellant gases that companies can use.

Eyejab In A Can

The unregulated nature of the OC business requires that we know what to look for in a product before we trust it. The only quantitative measure we can currently trust is the MCC (Major Capsenoid Content) of the spray. If this isn’t listed, then you can’t trust it to be sufficiently hot. There’s even some companies that seem to overestimate their product. Chuck recommends anywhere from 0.7-2.0% MCC. Bear spray is 2.0%MCC and regulated by the EPA, while ‘human grade’ is not under such scrutiny. Apparently there’s lots of weak sauce formulas. So go off of the MCC and brand when possible.

This portion of the lecture was very valuable for me. Chuck gives an overview of spray patterns (Spray, Fog, Cone, Gel/Foam) and the best uses for each style of spray. We talked about best care practices for assuring the can worked when you need it, and how to not accidentally contaminate your car on a hot summer day. Shot distance capability, target zones, time to take effect, as well as the shortcomings of each.

He ends the lecture segment with decontamination protocols, which mostly amount to washing the face with baby shampoo under cool water in a well ventilated area and just waiting for the suck to end.

Force on Force Exercises

I’m at the point where I believe any quality training program should include some manner of force on force. Chuck didn’t disappoint me and the latter half of the day was exercises that built in complexity and layered the use of OC into the existing Shivworks MUC/PUC (Managing Unknown Contacts) style pre-assault strategy.

Chuck using the author to illustrate the ‘Default Cover’ arm position

While the time was compressed, I feel the students were able to grasp the basic idea of MUC with movement, vebalization, and a high/compressed ‘fence’ hand posture to preserve and make space and time. Failing that, the default cover position was taught. If you’re not familiar, this is a non-diagnostic defensive posture constructed of a lowered center of gravity in base, and a helmet formed around your head with your arms. This allows you to weather an unexpected attack without needing the attributes of a fighter to stay upright and conscious.

Photo Cred: TCC

After the students had reps, the OC was plugged in. We were able to try various inert training units of various sizes and spray patterns. We also were taught ‘failure drills’ where the OC didn’t take effect and we had to transition to a secondary force option. We also got some ideas on using a flashlight and OC in conjunction. Overall it was a great amount of force on force for such a compressed time frame.

I think this is a great class and I’m looking forward to doing some coaching on the use of OC at my home MMA gym here in Lawrenceville, GA. I recommend training with Chuck whenever you can.

Additional Info and Recommended Products

The Special Application 9mm Carbine for Home Defense – Part 1

If you read my posts on the Ruger 10/22 (part 1, part 2) that I set up for home defense, this post will contain echoes and similar logic to that series. That particular .22 now lives at my parent’s house as their home defense rifle. Since we had a gun-void, I sought to fill it.

The Mission:

Find a carbine that my entire family could confidently use for self defense in the home, be willing to train with despite being recoil/muzzle blast-sensitive shooters, and keep at a reasonable cost. The ultimate goal is to build shooters with sufficient skill to make high pressure shots with no-shoots downrange on low probability targets. The only way to get there is if shooting isn’t a chore or abusive to the senses.

The Resource Problem:

Ammo costs and availability are a factor. We have a limited income, so a more affordable caliber makes sense for us. In my experience, less expensive caliber doesn’t mean spending less annually on ammunition, it means buying more ammo for the same price. More ammo means more practice, which means more proficiency.

We also don’t have $1200 for an AR-15 pattern 9mm carbine. We have a cost ceiling that we need to stay under. I have a pile of Glock pistol magazines that largely go unused since I’ve switched to Double Action Pistols. Using Glock magazines would be a nice bonus to save on support gear.

We have a time limitation. I need to maximize the training time, and blunt the learning curve by picking a platform that lends itself to quick proficiency. We rarely get time together, period. So finding time to go to the range is exceedingly rare. I have to strive for efficiency. Rifles are easier to shoot well. Four points of contact with a rifle beats two points of contact with a pistol. A red dot sight makes the learning curve easier for getting hits.

The shooter consideration problem:

For the shooters in my family, I need to be very considerate of recoil, and muzzle blast. My wife is quickly turned off to shooting a 5.56 rifle at indoor ranges due to the chest thumping concussion and flash that an AR-15 gives. She’s good for maybe 30 shots before she’s done. If concentration and focus is gone after one magazine, then competency will be impossible given the rarity of our range trips.

My wife isn’t a shooter. She wants to understand and be able to run all of our guns, but she doesn’t love shooting like I do. I have to be considerate of her time and pick something that she might enjoy more than an AR or shotgun.

I’d wager that many of you might be in a similar boat. It’s really time to bump the obsession with terminal ballistics down the list and keep context at the top. Despite what the ‘5.56 AR-15/ 00 buckshot or nothing’ crowd says, it’s more important that all the shooters meant to use a firearm can achieve a certain level of competency. If that means a .22LR, then that’s what it is. I wanted to give a 9mm carbine a chance, so here we are.

The tactical problem:

This is the reason we want a rifle that anyone in the house can use. My greatest concern is the shooting problem of a home invader with a downrange no-shoot. Not that it needs saying, but in the real world, it is very likely that there will be no-shoots forward of the ‘180* range safety line’. In fact, it’s quite common in home invasions for a husband to answer the late-night knock on the door, only to be overrun by bad guys. If I’m downrange, I want to make sure my shooters are competent enough to shoot them well, and not shoot me. It’s a self-preservation thing.

Story time to drive the point home. One of Tom Givens’ Students had to make a difficult shot with her husband down range:

A struggle ensued, during which the homeowner was shot in the thigh by one of the suspects. The homeowner’s wife was at the front door to greet her husband, and saw the attack. She ran upstairs, got her handgun, opened the bedroom window and engaged the suspects with several shots from the window.
She hit one suspect, and both fled.

Here’s another:

As the husband neared the front door, he heard the dogs growl and ran back to his bedroom, arming himself with a can of wasp spray, the records say. A man charged him in a hallway, and the husband sprayed the wasp spray in the intruder’s face, but it had no effect.

“The fight was on,” the records say. Both men tumbled to the floor, and the wife ran out with a baseball bat and struck the intruder with it until it broke, according to the documents.

After about three minutes, the husband yelled to his wife for help, “not knowing how long he could hold out in the fight,” according to the records. The wife “ran to the kitchen, grabbed a knife and stabbed the suspect several times until he quit fighting.”

These instances are not rare.  That’s reason enough for me to want good shooters in the house.

The Result:


I decided that I wanted to try the Ruger PC Carbine in 9mm. It checked a lot of the boxes that I had for this purpose. There’s a lot of reasons I went with this over some of the other options out there. I’ll make a quick list of the big ones:

  • In 9mm. A caliber that all of my handguns shoot. I have plenty on hand, and one caliber streamlines things. It’s also the most affordable ‘duty round’ caliber.
  • Easily takes an optic on the section of picatinny rail on top of the receiver.
  • Takes Glock magazines. From 10-round to 33-round happy sticks.
  • Similar ergonomics to the Ruger 10/22. The rifle that my wife has the most time on.
  • Affordable. I got mine for $425 on Brownells. That’s extremely reasonable for a rifle.
  • Adjustable length-of-pull with included butt-pads
  • A section of rail that can be used for a weapon mounted light. I always try to have a light on long-gun.
  • Has the ability to break down in half for transport and storage (not necessary, but a nice feature)

Next up will be some details on running it faster, optimizing the setup, and designing a training program.

Thanks for reading,

Mark

If you find value in my ramblings, please subscribe, share, and shop through our amazon affiliate link.